Souren Seraydarian, Deputy Special Representative
of the Secretary-General for Operations and Rule of Law
Abou Moussa, Deputy Special Representative of the Secretary -General for
Relief, Recovery and Rehabilitation and UN Humanitarian Coordinator for
Liberia
Mark Kroeker, Police Commissioner
NEAR VERBATIM
DSRSG Seraydarian: What is very important this week is first of all the fact that the Police Commissioner reported for duty and the Deputy Police Commissioner will be reporting for duty this weekend and the U nited Nations International Civilian Police is coming over the next few weeks.
But I would like to come to the meetings of the Joint Monitoring Committee, the JMC. We had yesterday a meeting of the JMC chaired by the Force Commander, General Opande, and we were discussing issues related to violations of the ceasefire. We had to make once and for all very clear that the violations of the Accra Peace Accord will not be tolerated, that there is a need to put an end to all these violations. All parties concerned - whether it was the old GoL [Government of Liberia], LURD or MODEL - all of them are now participating in the Transitional Government and it is time that they get their act together in the interests of the people in Liberia.
We discussed also the issues related to the skirmishes that happened in Nimba County last week and cleared the air and we have decided to increase the patrols throughout the region. We have raised the question of still - looted materials from humanitarian agencies, including vehicles and other communication material over time and the need to return them the humanitarian agencies or NGOs operating to assist the people of Liberia. We think that we made a lot of progress there and the parties are cooperating with us and trying at least their best to identify first the vehicles, the stolen material and return them back to the UN for redistribution to the legitimate owners. This applies to all three parties -- there are still a few vehicles that might have been taken at one point in time by ATU, vehicles which have been hijacked by LURD and an incident that occurred in the area controlled by MODEL forces, two days ago. But there is a lot of progress there.
The problem that is coming up regularly is that the leadership, whether it 's military or political, does not always get its message through to the local commanders and what I would identity as "local matadors," who do not realize that it is over.
We have discussed also issues related to the need of all parties concerned to accompany the patrols of the UN forces, to speak to their own subordinates in the regions in order to get a clear message , because we believe that there is a firm commitment by those who signed the Accra Peace Accord, but the message is not getting through down the line everywhere. We also mentioned the need for full, free, unhindered access of humanitarian assistance and UNMIL forces to all the regions, for which we do not have to coordinate. General Opande doe s not need the permission of any group or groups of people to send patrols, recces or have a UN presence in these areas.
On a positive note I think that the members of the JMC are very committed, they are trying to do their best and as I said the message is not going through to lower down, at least not always. We discussed issues related to starting of the DDRRP, Demobilisation, Disarmament, Reintegration and Rehabilitation Programme, and the role of each of the players, including the need to sensitize public opinion on the one hand and sensitize also the opinion of the individual soldiers. So there is a whole programme which will be launched by Public Affairs of UNMIL in co-operation with the Public Affairs specialists of all UN agencies to sensitize the public in general and the soldiers in particular. This is all I would like to say at this point.
DSRSG Moussa: Good morning. I have had the opportunity to brief many of you on the humanitarian situation in the country, so I would not want to repeat what I' ve told you not later than yesterday. But on one point to start with you will remember when we discussed yesterday, many of you were asking about more information on the Buchanan incident, you were asking me what will be the implications on the humanitarian activities as a result of that. Now, the information we have received so far indicates that the incident in Buchanan was more scare than dramatic. There was obviously shooting in the air , but that has not and will not disrupt our activities in Buchanan - I want to reassure you on that point. Yesterday, when we were talking I had no details of what had happened. From what we know the situation is under control and our colleagues in the humanitarian field have resumed their regular activities in Buchanan.
The second point I would like to touch on is the setting up of mechanism for the Liberian Emergency Governance Fund, which the SRSG has written to over 20 donor countries to be able to support the Transitional Government in raising funds as regards the start-up of the activities of the Transitional Government. We do hope that there will be early responses so that the government can be able to take off properly and it will concern the essential rehabilitation and administrative facilities and support for the implementation of the responsibilities as outlined in the Accra Peace Agreement .
The third point I want to touch upon is the launching of the CAP, that is the Consolidated Appeal process, which I have mentioned to you . We are seeking $ 137 million for the year 2004. This process will be launched on the 19th of November and we do hope there will be a massive response so that we can address the various humanitarian issues for 2004.
Police Commissioner Kroeker: Good morning everyone, I'm most pleased to meet all of you this morning and very pleased to be back in Africa after being raised as a young boy in the then Belgian Congo and then to return many years later, having spent a great deal of my life in law enforcement, almost 39 years in police work, principally in the United States, but also serving in peace efforts in Bosnia and Haiti and also working in the Middle East on discovering the causes for incitement in the Palestinian and Israeli issues that were there. So I'm very happy to be here as Police Commissioner working with Mr. Seraydarian and Mr. Klein and all the people in the leadership of the United Nations Mission in Liberia.
Our purpose for being here as the Civilian Police Unit is to not to be the police , but to develop the police. Our very existence here in the mission, with the anticipated 1 ,115 members of an international police service is to provide the support necessary in order to build a resourceful, fully functioning police service, national in scope, community-based with sound leadership with members who have character and competence , who have skills, who are trained and equipped and will serve every Liberian in the competent way of professional police service, the way they should. This is a very tall task obviously as we face many challenges that have to do with the resources, but also that has to do with restructuring, transformation, working within the law of Liberia, the recognition and respect for the sovereign national state in which we reside and in which we will work.
But we will push for the most rigorous standards, the most professional competence and the most compassionate and character-based organization that we can develop as friends of the Liberian people. We have a lot to do. At present, with my arrival here this week along with the arrival of 10 international police officers, two from Jordan, two from Bangladesh, three from Turkey and three from Norway, in all there are 11 of us at present and this will grow very rapidly over the next months. We will have very specific tasks for each of these employees as they work on the strategy of immediately assessing the situation, then developing a certification system, a new police force. The way ahead will be difficult , but it will be done with the cooperation of the Government of Liberia , so we will work very diligently to accomplish this mission in as short a time as possible.
On the weekend the deputy commissioner, Mohamed al Hassan, will be arriving. He is from Accra and he will provide that leadership as Deputy Commissioner to the senior team of the CivPol unit here in Monrovia. I'm very happy to meet all of you. We will have a policy of accessibility, as the first order of business in community policing, we want to be open and transparent, we want people to know what we are doing, and we want every person in Monrovia, in Liberia to know what is exactly going on so that we serve with diligence, but we also with integrity and we serve with openness as we develop the police forces of Liberia.
The Evidence newspaper: There have been questions raised as to why UNMIL decided to patch the roads not involving the Ministry of Public Works that has the statutory duty to build and repair roads in the country.
Seraydarian: I was under the impression that the Ministry was involved and the Deputy Minister was present even at the launching ceremony. So I'm a little bit puzzled about the question. I think the question should be put differently. We have allocated from member states money in order to assist the rehabilitation of the transport infrastructure of this country, not only in Monrovia , incidentally. So there are quick impact projects in central Monrovia , in Bushrod Island, but there are also larger scale projects foreseen which will be carried out by military engineering units which will be an integral part of the military component of the Mission. And incidentally we are trying, to maximum extent, to use local labor force. If you see in the streets, the people working are all Liberians. And we are trying to avoid, wherever it is possible, going to contractors, but using national NGOs .
DC Radio: I want to ask the Commissioner, there is not too much confidence in the local police force. How soon are you going to have a full contingent on the ground so that civil authority can be restored in some areas, for instance in Bushrod Island, there are no police stations... The civilians there don't trust the police on the ground. They are waiting for you and until you come, their concerns will not be addressed [inaudible]... the judiciary...
Kroeker: We should have about 100 police officers here by the end of the year, that's approximate, it could be a little more or a little less. And then by the end of June we should be at full strength - that's an anticipation although again this could vary somewhat. But I have to repeat that this International Police Service is not the Police of Liberia. We are here to develop the police and while we intend fully to deploy police officers to co-locate with them, work with local police even in an interim sense as we build the certified and equipped Police Service for the long run these employees will be there to mentor, to observe, to develop, to train, to help to equip, they will be almost as it were consultants to the police as we in the meantime transition into policing. I do recognize that there are parts of Monrovia, and certainly the nation, where there is little if any police and that is a problem that has been and will continue as we aim to address it through this strategy.
The Analyst newspaper: What did you hear about the police in Liberia and what is your mandate? Are you here to discard everybody and take a new one or are you going to incorporate those that are there now?
Kroeker: We intend to produce, first of all, a clear assessment of the local police situation. We will be sending our police officers to discover precisely the condition of the situation. How many, what are they doing, where is the deployment, where is there no deployment. All these questions need to be answered very carefully before we can make any judgments as professionals as to the capacity of the local police. This will happen very quickly over the next several weeks. And then we will begin this process of actually developing a police. Now you asked a question, who will be in that new police service. You notice I used this term 'service' because I believe this should be at the very heart of policing. Police are there to serve the people, not anything else other than the people. Yes, they have a reporting relationship and command and control - that's necessary, but at the heart of every police officer should be a desire to faithfully carry out the responsibilities of service to a community that is desperate for security and safety in the neighborhood, the cities and the villages.
And so as we build this police service, we will have a certification process, wherein anyone can apply - men, women, people of all parts of the country, anyone who is eligible under the requirements can apply. They then will have a very careful background to determine their competence, their background, their criminal history, if any, their eligibility will be established, those in the police service and those in the current police and those in the community will be welcome to apply. Then, once they are certified, then they will be in this new organization, that is the organization that the United Nations will do everything in its power to equip, to train, to help deploy, to develop this capacity, this robust nature of what a police service should actually be.
Seraydarian: If I may add only to what the Police Commissioner has said, two additional aspects: one is that International Police officers will be co-located with the police. They will not be working somewhere in Headquarters. They will be co-located. The second aspect, you touched upon indirectly earlier and that is in order to have a successful operation of policing in the service of the people, you have to have a functioning judiciary. That is why in the mandate of the United Nations Mission in Liberia, there is the question of supporting the judicial system that is doing exactly the same as is happening with the police. It means to assist in training aspects of human rights, the applications of the international conventions that Liberia has ratified, including incidentally the ratification by Liberia of the conventions concerning crimes against humanity and war crimes.
PollWatch newspaper: I'm concerned about the police. In the past we have seen police officers carry long-range weapons . In your equipping the new police service, will you give them long-range weapon or fire arms?
Kroeker: We are convinced that there is a very clear need to differentiate the military from the police. Military principally are those that carry weapons of war and defense that have to do with long-barreled weapons and other weapons that are associated with military. With a few exceptions, the local police should be the ones who carry a side arm, short barrel weapon to protect themselves and other human life. There is no need for a long-barrel weapon for local police as we understand it. This is a community police officer, a neighbourhood police officer, not a soldier.
BBC: I'm still not clear about what is actually happening in Buchanan, whether there is fighting (inaudible)... Secondly, does the UN see the reopening of school as feasible now?
Moussa: Let me start with the schools. As you know the UN is not addressing the issue of the schools alone, it is being done as per the government's curriculum and the decision of the government to reopen the schools. It is within that framework that we operate. Linked to that also as you know, when the fighting emerged throughout the country, a number of schools have been occupied by IDPs, so you have to also find solutions to vacate the schools so that the kids could go back to school. So the issue of opening the schools throughout the country is going to be progressive - it's not something that can be done overnight because of a number of considerations that you know about. For the Monrovia area, the dates have been set by the Ministry of Education. UNICEF has already and continue s to distribute emergency school materials which will target 750,000 children and a number of schools have been rehabilitated by this Mission so that kids can go back to school. Also, there are schools that are being vacated with IDPs being moved out to other sites in order to free the schools. These are the activities that are being addressed right now. The issue of schools being open throughout the country is going to be progressive in the areas that we have deployed. UNICEF has already distributed school materials in Buchanan, they intend to do that in Zwedru, they intend to do that in Harper. So this will be progressively done as we continue.
On the issue of what has happened in Buchanan, I will consider that as an incident that happened with some shooting in the air, but I've heard that this has been put under control and this is all I can tell you as of now. Just to let you know also that today, the Force Commander has gone there because it's better not to speculate, it's better to get the facts rights and I'm sure we'll be able to provide with more details with the return of the Force Commander who is out there today.
Liberia Broadcasting System: Looking at the morale of the police in the country right now, the way they have conducted themselves, do you think you are actually up to the task of reforming this whole thing because its just like down the tubes or out of the window - there is almost nothing that can be done about it.
Kroeker: Well, this is not mission impossible. The glass is half full not half empty. I think the Deputy SRSG has the right approach on that. In other words the positivity will carry us a long way. But also I call on all Liberians to be patient with us. It has taken many years to have a culture and environment in policing that is the current one and it will take more than a few minutes to produce a restructuring, a change in that environment and in that culture. So people need to be patient and also communities need to know that they will have a role in this new police because community policing calls on people to be involved with their police. It is their police that is involved, the development of that and the focus groups that we will establish as we listen to people in the neighborhoods as to what they want and expect in their police . The community needs to, number one, needs to be patient as we develop something over the next several months and indeed years. It is not going to happen overnight. We are determined to do it as rapidly as possible. I myself am impatient. I know the DSRSG and the SRSG, they are too. We want things to happen quickly, but we want them to happen correctly as we involve the community in developing what will be their police service. It is going to take a little time but we expect that in due time as we involve people and they are heard as to what they expect of their police, it will be the strong fabric of community and police partnerships that make for good policing in democratic societies throughout the world.
Corriere della Sera: In Nimba County warring sides are still at war and there's call for UNMIL to deploy too few troops there, to have the presence of UNMIL soldiers to calm down what is happening there. It is recognized that it is not a factional war, but it is a tribal war and they want international intervention. When are you going to move into Nimba County as soon as possible?
Lt. Col. John Ryan, Staff Officer, Force HQ: In the first instance you will appreciate that we are very far from being at full strength as a force. We are now about 5,000 on the ground. We expect to be 15,000 into early next year. That will make a huge difference to our capacity to patrol and to show a UN presence in the remote areas which you talk about, and to try to reassure the population in isolated and remote areas that yes, they now have protection. But it takes a long time to deploy. A brigade is a large-sized unit with all its materiel, all its equipment and the troops themselves. What you say, of course, makes sense and the question you ask is very valid. But we don't have the capacity right now to deploy as we would like to. We have deployed in and around the capital. We have gone as far upcountry as our limited resources allow us to do.
Seraydarian: As my military colleague mentioned, the reality is that we think that we will be able to deploy throughout the country by February 2004. The part of the question that I would like to answer is, what happens between now and February. Between now and February in Nimba County area we are doing two things. One is that the Force Commander personally - sometimes the acting Deputy F orce Commander - and other groups are taking with them on UN helicopters military commanders, whether it is from the previous GoL Liberian army or LURD or MODEL . It depends on where the skirmishes are, to accompany them and to talk to the people there, to the local people involved in the conflict.
The other thing that's happening: we are regularly now patrolling in the area, in order to bring back some sense of stability, maintaining the stability. During the last few days nothing happened in that area and things have calmed down as a result of visits and patrolling. And we will be increasing the number of this type of patrolling by air and by surface, using our helicopters a s well as the contingents. But we don't have yet the capacity to stay continuously there. And incidentally, with the deployment of the forces, also the international police members are going to be deployed into the regions in order to assist the local police if there is anything left of the local police.
IRIN: Last Monday in Sagleipie, some of the government commanders claimed that there are MODEL fighters still in Graie, although the UN said they should withdraw to Tapeta . What is the current status there now? And my second question has to do with LURD fighters terrorizing citizens in Bong County. What is UNMIL doing about it because there is the regular JMC meeting between the UN and the factions?
Seraydarian: To my knowledge there was a disengagement in the area and there is nothing happening, but probably my military colleagues will be up to date on that.
Ryan: Quite often we suffer from hearsay and it would be wrong of us, unless we can corroborate a story, verify it on the ground, we are not really in a position to comment. But the DSRSG is correct, there has been a disengagement in that area and as he also said we continue, within the limited resources that we have, to patrol by road and by air as we can and as we see the demand for it.
RFI: A police director has been appointed here, what will be the role of the police director? Second, there are reports that there is going to be the establishment of a war crimes tribunal. Is it going to be in Liberia, or the international one?
Kroeker: I have not met the commissioner, Christian Massaquoi, yet. I intend to meet with him, hopefully this week and get acquainted, have a discussion of respect and explain the strategy to him and solicit his support and his participation as we go through this restructuring system. I can't give you a judgment yet about him and I will be meeting him shortly.
Seraydarian: The Accra Agreement foresees a truth and reconciliation commission. Most of the combatants would fall under that, which is absolutely necessary to maintain peace in the country. However, there will be no amnesty for war crimes or crimes against international humanitarian law. That would be in violation against international conventions to which Liberia is a signatory. Certain cases may be referred to the functioning judiciary here once it becomes operational. You have seen the situation of the building of the Ministry of Justice, completely looted. But once they become operational, I think that Liberia has sufficient laws that can deal with these types of crimes. But if it does not deal with such crime , then, since Liberia is a signatory of the International Criminal Court, then as of the date that Liberia has ratified and adhered to the ICC, automatically all cases can be handled by the ICC. The ICC does not have retroactivity for crimes prior to the ratification by a member state of the Convention or of its statutes. So if today - and this was made very clear yesterday by General Opande to the members of the JMC - it means after October - there are ceasefire violations which lead to massive violations of international humanitarian law - rape, looting, killing of civilians - then yes, the responsible officers for that can be called to justice before the ICC as of the date of the ratification by Liberia, that is of 8 October.
Visao magazine (Portugal): Any details about the incident yesterday with the UNMIL patrol to Tubmanburg?
Ryan: What happened yesterday, there was a recce party from Pakistan trying to move upcountry to identify areas where they would deploy. Through a misunderstanding - and it was a genuine misunderstanding - they were not allowed to pass. It was lack of coordination. And today that same reconnaissance party will travel by road and be allowed to fulfill its mission. We thought in the beginning that it was a little bit sinister but in fact not so. It's just one of these things that happen when there isn't sufficient coordination. But we are quite happy that it will happen today.
Visao: The situation in Sagleipie? Refugees and IDPs coming from Guinea and Cote d'Ivoire?
Moussa: As a result of the recent clashes and as already mentioned , we have no reports of fresh clashes in the last 48 hours at least, but due to what has happened in the past we now talk about some 10,000 displaced persons who have moved out from the town where the incident happened into Sagleipae township. As you know WFP, UNHCR,MSF-Switzerland and all these agencies are now responding to the humanitarian needs. Tomorrow WFP and other organizations here are organizing a road convoy to Sagleipie in addition to the response that we have already put in place.
VOA: Follow-up on Tubmanburg: what's been done to reduce tension? And were there any casualties when the patrol was stopped?
Seraydarian: None of the UN vehicles -- UNMIL or agency vehicles bringing humanitarian assistance or UNICEF bringing books to Tubmanburg - were returned recently. Indeed, about ten days ago the chairman of LURD, Mr. Conneh, made a declaration that there is free access for all UN humanitarian agencies and UNMIL to travel in any area where there are LURD forces. We've had no problems. Yesterday the case, as carefully worded by my military colleague, was a real misunderstanding and that was that LURD was aware that the recce team was coming and the information did not go sufficiently down the line, as I was mentioning before. So LURD representatives in the JMC apologized for that and they made the arrangements that it is rectified immediately and the team has gone or is going already on its way now to Tubmanburg. It has to be very clear: we do not need anybody's authorization to move freely in the territory of Liberia as specified in Resolution 1509 of the Security Council.
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